We ‘cannot relaxation on our laurels’ • TechCrunch


It’s no shock that Katie Haun is a serious proponent of NFTs, or non-fungible tokens. The previous federal prosecutor who as we speak co-leads the highly effective crypto follow of Andreessen Horowitz, has been a pupil of the know-how since at the very least 2018, when a16z first backed Dapper Labs, which is now quite valuable.

On the time, Vancouver-based Dapper Labs was recognized for a collectible digital cat sport known as CryptoKitties that baffled these exterior the crypto group. This 12 months, Dapper broke out thanks to a different providing on its blockchain known as NBA Top Shot that permits sports activities followers to purchase and promote collectible spotlight clips — but even that may be a use case that may appear minor within the grand scheme of issues, Haun recommended Thursday night time at a StrictlyVC event hosted by this editor.

Throughout our wide-ranging sit-down, she defined why she thinks NFTs’ considerably concentrated consumer base is about to blow up, and he or she shot down the concept that a comparatively small variety of creators who flip to NFTs for revenue will profit from them. She additionally defined an innovation that a16z launched that permits the heavyweight agency to nab a 20% low cost on the tokens that now make up 75% of its crypto bets, and he or she mentioned with us whether or not all enterprise companies will or ought to grow to be registered funding advisers as a16z did in 2019. Excerpts from that dialog observe, edited for size. You may also try the complete interview under.

TC: On what a16z tells its traders about its numerous bets on NFTs, and what the unifying thread is:

Katie Haun: I believe basically NFTs are going to dramatically change the enterprise mannequin for the web for customers and content material creators …  Why is it necessary for customers? [For example] proper now, for those who purchase a “Fortnite” pores and skin, what if the sport goes underneath?  … [Now consider that] you’re a gamer and you may take your good to a different platform; you need to use it anyplace. That’s actually highly effective for customers. It’s placing energy instantly again in [their] fingers.

It’s additionally nice for content material creators as a result of they will program these tokens, these digitally scarce items, to get monetary upside in all future transactions [and cut out middlemen who take 30% today in the process]. Think about what that does for the creator financial system. [People are focused today on digital art but] I believe subsequent 12 months at the moment, we’ll be speaking about music and what boundaries can come down within the music world.

Haun went on to say that she’s truly fairly centered on music-related NFTs proper now and used singer-songwriter Billie Eilish to focus on what may very well be attainable (and is already happening, in some circumstances) with musicians and NFTs:

[Eilish] was type of found on the web by a bunch of followers. But did these early adopters, her actually true followers who made her well-known, did they share in her stardom? Not a bit. Actually, not solely did they not share in her stardom, their expertise was worse as she blew up. Ticket costs went up. The strains bought longer at stadiums, and live performance venues are offered out for her. Now think about if the individuals who found her and made her what she was within the early days … what if via an NFT or a sensible contract they might have held one thing that associated to Billie Eilish’s success? [It could] be that she data a music to Spotify however then creates a companion good contract NFT that entitles followers to particular entry to reveals ceaselessly, or to tour together with her, or maybe entitles them to future parts of her royalty streams. Now abruptly, these followers share within the financial upside, as an alternative of simply report labels and legal professionals and middlemen.

On whether or not the economics will in the end look a lot the identical for creators as as we speak, with a small quantity reaping many of the monetary rewards as has occurred, for instance, with Twitch, the place a knowledge leak confirmed that 1% of streamers see half of all revenue:

Katie Haun, talking at a StrictlyVC occasion on November 11, 2021. Picture Credit: Dani Padgett

It’s nonetheless very early days for these enterprise fashions … [But] one factor about crypto structure distributed methods is which you could make a residing, and we’ve seen this with NFTs already. You don’t must be Beeple and get actually wealthy to make a residing. I personal a few NFTs [including by a] feminine artist who stop her job and who packages digital artwork that I purchased on OpenSea. She has programmed a sensible contract that if I promote [these NFTs] to you, she would get a portion of that sale, and for those who then rotated and offered them to an viewers member and perhaps if it appreciated in worth, she would get royalties off that sale, whereas proper now she will get nothing if it’s bodily artwork.

We talked concerning the widespread notion that NFTs are taking off fueled by a small subset of moneyed patrons with money to burn, whilst most Individuals battle to pay their payments. On this entrance Haun stated that she understands why individuals may view NFTs as an indulgence for the wealthy however famous that it’s early days for the know-how. 

I believe it’s actually necessary with NFTs to not decide the present state of innovation by the tip state of innovation. I utterly perceive what you’re saying. I’ve seen it myself. But I additionally see [parallels], when it comes to standing symbols, within the bodily world, the place many Individuals are struggling, [while] others can afford luxurious automobiles and Rolexes, so I believe the digital world is not any totally different. And like there are luxurious bodily items, there are additionally fundamental items that folks need to personal in the true world that aren’t ostentatious, [and] I believe you’ll begin to see extra of these [more basic goods] developed digitally.

In some unspecified time in the future, we switched gears to debate a16z’s deal circulation. Right here, Haun recommended that two of her board seats, with Coinbase and OpenSea, allow her to see quite a lot of what, and who, is on the rise within the crypto world.

I believe we’re very privileged to take a seat proper on the heart; we have now a entrance row seat within the ecosystem and that’s as a result of each Chris Dixon and myself have been on the board of Coinbase for a few years now … they usually have Coinbase Ventures … and there are only some crypto initiatives on the market that don’t pitch Coinbase Ventures. OpenSea is one other board that I’m on proper now they usually’ve carried out these report volumes they usually’re the biggest NFT market on the earth they usually’re additionally doing enterprise investing, so proper there, simply via our connections to those type of giants within the area, we have now deal circulation as a result of they’re seeing offers [and] we’re seeing offers.

After all, crypto may be very international [and at this point] we’re really international. I’d say at the very least 50% of our investments on this final crypto fund have been worldwide, so we have now to not sit again and relaxation on our laurels of “Oh, we’re on the board of Coinbase and OpenSea.” We’ve got to be actually open-minded about totally different initiatives in several nations … [where many founders have] by no means heard of Andreessen Horowitz. I believe we take that as a right simply being right here, however [elsewhere in the world] they’ve by no means heard of [us]. They don’t know our worth.

It requires us to go get on a airplane [in some cases]. [We’ve also] pioneered a delegate program the place we delegate our stake in proof-of-stake methods to individuals worldwide, whether or not that’s NGOs like Kiva and Mercy Corps, [or] firms like Deutsche Telekom, or whether or not it’s universities like Stanford and Berkeley and plenty of different universities world wide [including] Technion College in Israel … we’re not resting on our laurels [in the expectation that] as a result of we’ve had nice deal circulation, it’ll proceed. {The marketplace} for crypto traders is widening for certain.

We additionally talked about why the agency is investing a lot in tokens, together with instantly over-the-counter. We puzzled if a16z will get any type of most popular standing in these offers. We additionally puzzled what has pushed the agency’s shift away from extra conventional fairness offers like Coinbase and OpenSea, and whether or not it was crypto founders themselves who started pushing again towards these preparations. Stated Haun (who, by the best way, famous that fairness offers haven’t gone away solely however that they’ve escalated in worth as extra VCs have begun to compete for them):

If you realize an over-the-counter desk that may give me most popular charges, let me know as a result of I haven’t discovered one. [No,] with over-the-counter, we’re simply shopping for it spot; we get no particular therapy. If something … we’re very acutely aware of not transferring the market the place it’s a real over-the-counter [investment] and the founding father of a protocol may not even know we’re an investor.

In different circumstances, generally protocols will need a explicit enterprise capital investor, though that’s altering quickly and we should be nimble and account for that. However what we’ve carried out in a few of these circumstances, the place a protocol founder actually needed us to be concerned is, early on, name it three years in the past within the token surroundings, they’d give us a reduction. However that turned very unpopular within the crypto ecosystem. [People wondered] why ought to VC traders get a reduction over the group?

One of many issues we did [to address that concern] is [say], “Give us a lock up then. We’re 7- to 10-year affected person traders; we’re not working a crypto hedge fund.” So if we need to cheaper price — name it a 20% low cost  — in change, we will be locked up for 4 years or, in some circumstances for years, even longer and generally shorter. That’s one innovation that we dropped at totally different token offers. So we have obtained reductions generally, however the factor is that we’ve additionally carried out quite a lot of work for a few of these protocols the place we obtained a reduction in change for lockup.

Although Haun has been requested this earlier than, we additionally inquired about her seats on the each the boards of OpenSea and Coinbase, two firms that look like a collision course, provided that OpenSea is an NFT market and Coinbase, the cryptocurrency change, extra not too long ago introduced plans to additionally create a type of NFT market. Actually, Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong stated throughout an earnings name final week that he thinks the marketplace for NFTs may rival or even be larger than Coinbase’s cryptocurrency enterprise.

We puzzled how she navigated this difficult terrain, and even whether or not Coinbase may purchase OpenSea. She dismissed the final query with a head shake. As for the 2 colliding, she had this to say:

That’s a pessimistic view. I truly don’t agree that they’re on a collision course. To start with, I’ll say that what Coinbase’s plans are they haven’t even introduced but. They solely introduced that they’re exploring doing one thing within the NFT area, however we don’t even know what but it is going to be.

One factor that I keep in mind Brian Armstrong stated years in the past, once we began seeing opponents come into the change area … he stated “That is truly nice.” And I believed to myself, What am I lacking? And he stated, “This simply means the pie is rising. This simply validates our entire thesis. This can be a big alternative, and others see it.”

[Similarly] the NFT area is so huge that I believe there’s completely room for a lot of gamers and I really feel very lucky to be on the boards of two actually cutting-edge firms that may play on this area. I don’t agree that they’re on a collision course. Actually, if it performed out that method, if the ecosystem evolves that method, that might be one thing I’d have to handle, as a former federal prosecutor.

As for whether or not extra enterprise companies could have to grow to be registered funding advisers in the event that they need to be taken critically by crypto founders, Haun declined to say so outright however she recommended it might make sense.

Look, each single crypto devoted fund is is registered as an RIA. There at the moment are a lot of them on the market, they usually’ve all registered as RIAs. It looks like a prudent factor to do the place the regulatory standing is so unsure if you wish to maintain tokens.



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